Dear Koza, utter crap..pure utter crap

I agree with you on the principle of having to earn your living, but that's not what we are seeing in business today. We're seeing the wealthy walk away with severance packages--getting canned!--and getting paid more than a whole room full of GOOD educators, more than the jobless masses who were laid off to increase the bottom line, more than the talented young men and women who can't afford to even go to college and pursue that upward mobility. We're seeing the wealthy feeling entitled to raise prices, spend foolishly, and generally act like royalty. And THAT is un-American.

If these patterns continue, it starts to call into question one of the most basic tenets of the American dream, which is that each generation does better than the one that came before it," said Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center and co-author of the study.

In every downturn in the history of human economics, the youth will not fair as well as the more established, relatively elder of our population. Likewise, the rich can ride these downturns out with far more flexibility during any down time than those that live check to check.

Given that, MSN would like to use these natural consequences of poor policy to brainwash the youth into voting for more detrimental policy. Shame on you MSN! SHAME! Class warfare is not the answer, it is a tactic! Punishing success gives you less success!

Excellent. The wealth gap SHOULD be increasing.

You come into the world with zero, but as you become wiser with your money, you accumlate more wealth. So you want to punish people who have been able to invest and save? Come on

Koza, great point!

Kornfed and Koza, I think you miss the point. The wealth gap between the under 35 and the over 65 has always been large due to their time to accumulate wealth and (presumably) the wisdom that comes with age.

The problem is not the gap itself, but rather that the gap is growing larger. This indicated that the youth of today are having it harder than when those over 65 were young. There is an optimal wealth gap between generations and increasing it beyond healthy levels is detrimental to the younger generations, and to society as a whole.

Fact is the under 35 group has less wealth than their predecessors did at their age. They have more debts, and fewer job opportunities than their parents did at their age. They also are paying into social security and medicare, but are unlikely to see the returns (unlike their parents generation).

No, the youth in America have received the short end of the stick.

There you go again MSNBC - contradicting yourself. This financial crisis has made it nauseatingly obvious that you print whatever anyone gives you without doing any checking of your own. Just last week, you printed a story that said it was clearly affecting senior citizens more harshly. I'd tell you to look it up to verify, but apparently you don't know how to do that.

Listen up people: Stop buying into these media sites, they are basically "anyone can post anything however inaccurate" sites. You cannot believe what is posted as a news story here or any other site like this for that matter.

By the way, those suffering the most are those without money. Bet you can take that one to the bank, or not if you don't have any money.

The problem is not the gap itself, but rather that the gap is growing larger

Check trends of past economic downturns....

EngEsq -

The gap is transitory. The 35-60 group benefited the most from the dotcom and housing bubbles because they were in position to do so. I think you'll find that the 35-50 yo groups were the hardest hit when the housing bubble burst. The 50+ group was generally in a better position to weather it for a couple of reasons, one having been through it '79-'82 and another because they were farther into their existing mortgage so less likely to be up side down.

Another great point Brian.

The sad minority of the wealthy who earned their money have a hard time understanding that most people of their status did not lift a finger more than anyone else for their money. It is not a surprise that they are in disbelief.

However, since the majority of those who have large wealth did nothing more than an average worker, or likely even less, to get where they are, and then trot about like a bunch of entitled a-holes, it is really not a surprise that you find a massive amount of justified anger at the wealthy.

It certainly is dumb, incredibly dumb, to think the 'American Dream' means each generation does better than the last. That is a goal, not some ridiculous expectation. The'American Dream' did not used to mean that. However, the situation today isn't about entitlement. It is about being able to simply have an all right life. When you have 15% below the poverty level, an unemployment rate of 9% and possibly rising, and STILL no financial reform of CEOs and the way they (don't) run their companies, it isn't an all right life anymore. At least the Douchebag Party and the Occupy protestors have that in common...That your Pukes and Dimocrats have failed you and I, and they promise to keep on failing you and I. It isn't going to change until people who get elected who are not paid mouthpieces of the entitled inheritors, as opposed to the true wealth builders and your average worker.

You get social securty and medicare. Both of these programs were created to help in retirement. The idea is that while your working you are supposed to pay enough in to support the program. the generations that have collected social secuirty are collecting more than they paid into the program. If you had to fend for yourself and purchase your own health insurance instead of making the rest of us subsidize it for you through taxes we are forced to have taken out of our checks...Gee the world would be a different place..ALL YOUR GENERATION CAN SAY IS THAT SS WON'T BE AROUND FOR MY GENERATION...Basically too bad for us..

We don't have wealth because those of us who go by the rules pay our own healthcare and don't have any money left to invest in stock.

IN AMERICA YOU ARE TAXED LESS IF YOU ACTUALLY WORK ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS HAVE A LITTLE MONEY AND OUT IT IN THE STICK MARKET AND SIT AROUND LIKE A LAZY COW AND COLLECT A STOCK DIVIDEND IT GOES UP IT GOES DOWN AS WE GET LAID OFF IT GOES UP..

YOUR GENERATION AND ITS PENSIONS PLANS ARE THE REASON THE JOBS ARE OVER SEAS..IT CHEAPER TO ENSLAVE 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES JUST AS LONG AS YOU CAN KEEP GETTING THAT EXTRA PENSION CHECK OR STOCK DIVIDEND..

BUT YOUR GENERATION KEEPS TELLING THE YOUNG ONES HOW LAZY THEY ARE AS YOU HAVE ILLEGAL ALIENS MOW YOUR LAWN BECAUSE YOUR NOT GOING TO PAY THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR KID WHO IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN 5 DOLLARS MORE BECAUSE YOUR TOO CHEAP

Derik, I feel sorry for you.

The sad minority of the wealthy who earned their money have a hard time understanding that most people of their status did not lift a finger more than anyone else for their money. It is not a surprise that they are in disbelief.

If it is so easy, not taking more effort than the average worker to achieve, why dont you do it then? Are you implying that the majority of these people all inherited their wealth?

Clearly the solution is to tax the elderly. As any self-righteous liberal will tell you everybody deserves to have whatever they want despite never actually earning it.

Did you think they would stop at class warfare? age warfare is right around the corner.

Anyone who thinks you come into this world with nothing is wrong. The entitlement program is alive and well with the super rich and even the rich. Everyone that comes into this world from super rich people are super rich before they get out of diapers. Almost all super rich and rich people come from super rich and rich parents. You want to know how to become super rich, easy, be born that way. I am open for as many people as you can name that was born into poverty and became super rich through hard work.

When you replace First, Second and Third Place with a trophy for participating, you end up with what we have today:

Children who never learned how to fail.

Our quality of life is on decline. An entire nation cannot borrow for decades and then hope that all will be fine when the pay back time arrives. Inflation or deflation, the outcome is going to be the deduction of the real value of debt from the money supply. What was borrowed will be paid back one way or another. If Bernanke prints too much, savers will pay alot. If Bernanke prints too little, borrowers will pay alot. But at the end, when the dust settles, it does not matter who pays in a global economy. Deflation is more likely than inflation in the near term. This is because if Bernanke does not print, then it is outright deflation as debt deflates. If Bernanke prints too much, then creditors will not lend at low rates, thus reduction in credit supply will be deflationary for credit dependent markets such as housing. In any case, deflation means pool is shrinking. Here is how the monetary system is prone to inflation and deflation:

www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/credit-inflation/

Our real problem is not unemployment, or housing, or productive capacity. Our real problem is man made. Self induced. We have borrowed from the banks for many decades. Banks use fractional reserve banking and they legally counterfeit money. This new money inflates the prices and salaries. Now our entire money supply is created by the banks like this and it is N. But we promised to pay back N+I, I is the interest.

I hope it is obvious to you that entire population cannot possibly be employed with salaries that makes it possible to earn N+I. Thus, bankruptcies, foreclosures are a guaranteed part of this debt based monetary system.

When the economy is strained by excessive debt burden like this, do not hope to find employers who can hire people. They are in trouble too. Their customers are in trouble too. Everybody is in debt and nobody wants to spend. It is a deflationary crash.

U3 is not an accurate indicator of unemployment. There are many people who want a job but they do not qualify for benefits and they are not counted! Real unemployment is about 18-22% right now. Another way to look at unemployment picture is to count who is actually employed:

www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/unemployment/

Greatest Depression is just starting. 2008 was only the warmup.

From my perspective (not as a parent, but merely an observer) there is one big advantage that the youth of today have over the youth of 40 or 50 years ago: affluent parents. These youngsters were raised with an entitlement mindset. Many of them never had a job in high school or college. They got a rinky-dink degree which has provided them no foundation for the working world. They want flex hours and flex days. They want an office. They want a six figure salary. When we interview them, they cannot answer the basic question "What skills do you have that can be of benefit to my company?" THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE UNREALISTIC. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

You come into the world with zero, but as you become wiser with your money, you accumlate more wealth. So you want to punish people who have been able to invest and save? Come on.

Who is the moron (Paul Taylor) that said a basic tenet of the American dream is that each generation does better? No, that is a philosophy of entitlement. A basic tenet of the American dream is you can start with nothing and build something through your own enterprise, ingenuity, and hard work. That has not changed. But that does NOT imply you will do better or worse than the previous generation. What you will achieve is entirely up to you.

You're are clearly saying things just to be inflammatory. And shame on you for that. How dare you ignore the history of, racism, and inequality throughout America.

If you don't know what I'm talking about - Federal Housing Loans, look it up.

Andy,

How dare you ignore the history of, racism, and inequality throughout America.

Yeah, I've seen the racism and inequality. In every job I ever had, I saw people of "protected classes" with less talent, accomplishment and academic qualification given benefits unavailable to this unprotected white male. I found that complaining about poor little me didn't help much any.

I didn't like it, so I started my own business. Guess what - I did very well. One of the great things about self-employment is that you make exactly what you're worth every day. That includes the days when you're really lousy and lose money, too.

Racism has nothing to do with it. Talent and hard work (and smart work) win out every time.

you do not com into this world with zero. some of us come into this world in a family of abundance and surplus. some of us come into this world with families that owe more than they have (sometimes circumstantial, sometimes self inflicted). some of us come into families that just get bye or maybe have a little extra, but one lost job or bad health issue could sink them.

your notion that we are all born equally into this world is false. we are supposed to be born with equal rights and opportunities, and while the constitution guarantees our rights, our opportunities depend largely into the family and region and economic bracket that we are born into. Yes the american dream is a rags-to-riches story, but the deck is getting increasingly stacked against those born into rags, while the riches keep all for themselves.

It's amazing to me how we all see the deterioration from not investing in our future, but all the conservatives here and in politics try to downplay the facts, or try to spin this as just people needing a job. They will refuse to look in the mirror and see what they are supporting.

The fact is that the young and uneducated are being left behind and they are going to get more and more upset as time goes by. You can try to push it under the carpet, but unless something is done quickly in America to invest in our future, we are going to have generations following us in chaos.

Mark my word, that unless things change fairly quickly, things could go from bad to worse.

Brian,

our opportunities depend largely into the family and region and economic bracket that we are born into.

Really? Not a hundred years ago, nearly everyone in this country was desperately poor by today's standards. How can it be that we have a fabulously rich (by historical standards) middle class and many millions of people that even you would call rich?

First off, demonizing younger generations is idiotic. There are plenty who take pride in having a good work ethic...it's like people labeling liberals as wanting handouts. What you people fail to realize, maybe because you simple are too closed minded or selfish, is that many liberals want the things they do, not for themselves but actually for other people to have in case they need it...including republicans.

I know many liberals who work just as hard or harder than those I see who identify themselves as republicans...who I find like to brag about how much work they do instead of actually doing it.

Some humbling facts:

Since 1984, the wealth of the 65+ group has increased 42%. This actually is less than inflation by quite a bit. It sucks to be an old person in 2011.

However, it sucks even more to be a young person: since 1984 the wealth of the under 35 group has decreased 68%. Add in inflation, the youth of today functionally own less than a sixths of what the youths of 1984 owned. This is a staggering number.

While these numbers were exacerbated due to the downturn, even prior to this recession, the trend of a widening wealth gap was well established.

Koza,

You are correct when you say no generation is entitled to a better standard of living than the previous generation. However, you are rationalizing, not critically reasoning, when you state that the "American Dream" is up to each individual ONLY! If a person is to work hard, save, invest, and those other admiralble verbs so often used to describe "getting ahead", then there must be GOOD available jobs for them to achieve these goals. Without the tools (jobs and careers) few would be afforded the opportunity to climb the ladder of success. So please think just a little bit deeper than 'first base'! God Bless!

The fact is that the young and uneducated are being left behind and they are going to get more and more upset as time goes by.

Yep that is definitely what happens. It's been that way for centuries. What's the lesson? Go to school. Don't be a dropout. The assertion however that spending even greater sums of taxpayer dollars (the real meaning of Lib code words for invest) will solve this problem has been dis-proven time and time again. It's time to get Big government also know as the Feds and Public Unions out of our education system. That is the best investment in our children's future we could make.

I guess the old saying,"We push off all our debts onto our childrens backs to be paid later" just might have meaning.

Actually Kornfed, I have pity for you. Not because I necessarily accuse you of being part of the wealthy that didn't earn their wealth, but for even thinking at any point that the majority of the incredibly wealthy (the so called 1%) ever did anything more than an average worker to earn it. Extreme pity.

The wealthy who do work are somewhere, typically, in the top 20%, but not in the top 1%. This group DOES pay the most in taxes. It isn't really surprising that they lean conservative. And as a group, they are typically professionals who do earn their wealth. But when you compare the wealth of the top 1% to the next 19%, it is pretty gross. Go by the 2010 congressional report on it. It was one of the few done by both parties. Probably because they wanted to find out just how much they earned above their peers. :P

Anyway, yes, if you are talking about the top 1% of wealthy in this country, there are none that I know of who do more work than a steel mill worker or person climbing polls for a telephone company. Aw, did some executive just tell me how hard it is flying all over the world, working 13 hours a day in an air conditioned office and 3 square meals a day? Boo Hoo. And they worked 'smarter' to get their job? No they didn't. They got that job through connections. And by the way, the 13 hour day is offset by 5 months of vacations and only working 3 days a week.

Look at the schedule of your average Congressman. Do you think they work hard? Is that why Congress made sure they went on a 2 week vacation over the summer while we had our financial meltdown? That same congress that will become big executives after they lose their political jobs, like John Corzine?

Yeah, maybe once upon a time in la la land the majority in the top 1% earned their wealth. But if they did then, they certainly don't now.

As a 60 y/o I can say that our generation has had it all. Tuition was affordable and jobs were plentiful. The younger generations are paying into Social Security and will never see a benefit. The least we could do is to forgive student loans and make education affordable for them--as it was for us. Stop funneling all the money to the DoD.

You come into the world with zero, but as you become wiser with your money, you accumlate more wealth

Yes, I remeber a 2 day old baby working at the hospital to put food in my belly and clothes on my back. You do realize that people come into this world a little better off then others. I'm not going to take away from anyones good work and wisdom but there is a difference in starting from 1000 rather then 0.

But the article is more to do with the good work young people are doing is not reaping the same returns as previous generations.

Sandtrich,

We can't be spending money frivilously on children and education afterall we have gunpowder, bombs and bullets we need to buy!!

Republicans do not care about the 35 year olds and their lack of jobs or wealth.

espliff:

A great deal of the fault for the current crop of young people lies with their bad choices. There lots of companies who can't fill current vacancies......vacancies which require skills in engineering, medical technology, computer technology, and business administration. From watching interviews with OW protestors, it seems that most of them have degrees in international studies, communications. media journalism, psychology, and other disciplines that are in low demand in a high-tech economy.

Go to school. Don't be a dropout. The assertion however that spending even greater sums of taxpayer dollars (the real meaning of Lib code words for invest) will solve this problem has been dis-proven time and time again.

But, if jobs aren't available for the educated, or, if some kind of employment isn't available for those who don't go on to higher education (and there are great numbers of those) we are just asking for problems.

The fact is, money is thrown at problems because that's normally what works. People like to say we don't need to throw money at a problem (or enough has been spent already) but they aren't being honest. Of course any issue they want solved needs money. We decide where those resources should be spent and we suffer the consequences in the end. Investing means spending resources now for benefits in the future.

The housing crisis is a perfect example. Most conservatives felt we shouldn't help those that got into the mess on their own (understandable to think that), however, we all suffered the consequences by not doing that. We might have been better off holding our noses and bailing some of them out.

People born 65 years ago were raised by people who lived through the great depression. I would imagine that they were given much better instruction on how to manage their money... and how NOT to take debt lightly. It is amazing what a couple generations of easy living does to a society's memory.

So the older generation f---s over SS and forces the younger generation to PAY for them... knowing that the younger generation will NOT have the same opportunity.

The older generation f---s over the economy, giving themselves more money by taking money from the younger generation (their children).

The older generation creates a housing bubble that almost destroys the entire world economy.

The older generation lays off younger workers and sends jobs overseas so that they can increase their own pocket book.

And after the older generation does all this... they blame the younger generation for it.

Where is the "personal responsibility"? When will the older generation admit that they f---ed up?

Nope, according to the older generation, they did nothing wrong... NOTHING. They are ALL perfect. The economy crashing? All because of those damn high school and college students (younger generation). The housing bubble? All those high school and college students buying homes. SS crisis? All those damn high school and college kids abusing SS. Lay offs and jobs going overseas? You guessed it... those high school and college kids did it.

The older generation DESTROYS the economy and America... blame those damn kids.

But, if jobs aren't available for the educated

Hypothetical speak makes for a great talking point but the real fact is the unemployment rate for college grads is 4.4% according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Historically an unemployment rate below 5% is considered full employment.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Year after year we spend more borrowed money on education and year after year we score worse against other nations. Clearly mindlessly throwing money at the problem isn't solving it. Einstein said it best in more ways than one:

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

We don't have wealth because those of us who go by the rules pay our own healthcare and don't have any money left to invest in stock.

readabook - you must be very young and naive because you have no concept of reality. Take, for example, the quote from your post that I pasted above. Where did you get the idea that you are "playing by the rules" by purchasing your own health care insurance if you are not working? That section of Obama's health care reform has not yet gone into effect and no one knows if it actually will, so you are not playing by any rules if you are currently purchasing insurance. You are merely providing for yourself. Most people who have full-time jobs pay little or nothing for their own personal health care insurance because that is provided by their employer as part of their benefits package. They might have to pay to include their family under their plan, but why should any employer have to provide free health care for an extended family? People 65 and older who were employed full-time when they were younger usually had health care provided as one of their job benefits, but as soon as that person was fired or quit his/her job, their employment related health care ended and they had to purchase out-of-pocket insurance if they could get it, just like anyone else. The older generation was not given anything special because of the era in which they worked, so stop feeling sorry for yourself because you buy health care insurance instead of purchasing stocks. That is your choice. Get a job if you want free or low cost health care coverage.

Another news flash for you...it doesn't matter how old you are, if you are earning income from investments, you are probably paying taxes on that investment income. My mother is 87 years old. Most of her income is from Social Security, which she deserves because both she and my father worked most of their lives. At 87, she still works a few days per month keeping books for an attorney. At 87 years of age, she still pays quarterly estimated taxes on what she earns, so where did you get the ridiculous idea that the older generation is exempt from paying taxes?

Finally, you should take your own advice and READ A BOOK! Judging from the number of spelling errors, misuse of words, incorrect punctuation and capitalization, omitted words, etc., in your post, one would have to assume that you have not read many books. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are not finding the jobs that you want or earning the amount to which you think you are entitled because you come across as poorly educated and ignorant? A good job and income requires a good work ethic and education. Everyone in this country is offered a free public education from K-12. There is no excuse for not taking advantage of that and learning how to communicate using proper English. Stop the pity party and learn a skill or pursue a higher education to make yourself employable rather than ranting about the older generation. With any luck, you will find yourself a member of the older generation someday, and it will happen much faster than you ever imagine.

former-GOP,

I feel the anger in your post. I am one of those "older genreration" folks to which you refer. In fact I am 68 years old! I agree with you that in many respects you were 'sold-out'. However, when you complain about us 'old-foggies', please remember we are also the generation which gave you birth, your own color T.V., computers, extravagant advances in medicine, space travel, improved highway safety, mobil phones, a car of your own at age 16 to 18, and other tremendous advances which have and will benefit you and future generations to come. We have fought for your freedom and liberty in way too many wars as did our fathers and mothers in WWII. We have done much for you! But in another sense we did fail you. We did NOT take an active interest in what was being done by our elected government officials at all levels, local, state, and federal. It was probably a fatal error on our part. For example, the Social Security Fund was extremely well funded until raided by our politicians; we did not raise our collective voices to a level which would have discouraged this action. I could go on and on given the time. But remember this we are, as you are, fallible and do not see the future clearly. But please know this, we will continue to work with you and for you, our children, whom we love dearly. As a side note, I am very curious about your moniker and I sincerely hope you will have the vision to remain a former-GOP member. Have a healthy, prosperous, and productive life and God Bless!

@Kornfed

Are you sure it was "korn" that you were fed?

The wealth divide has been rising for 40 years. This is not some economic cyclical phenomenon and this Great Recession is not just regular business cycle recession. More than one Nobel Prize economist or historian has said so.

The reality is that I am paying more in payroll taxes than my parents did when they were my age. I am luckier than those younger than I am in that I went to college BEFORE the recent ridiculous rise of tuition costs and before all the supports for higher education got cut in favor of paying for bank bailouts, bondholders, retirement benefits and tax cuts to people who have done nothing but speculate with the money instead of creating jobs. At least I had the benefit of the 90s boom, the recent grads have seen nothing but misery from day 1.

The policies of the past generation have been a failure and today's economy is the consequence of the short-sighted, selfish nonsense your posts display.

PAID MY OWN WAY THROUGH COLLEGE.

I have 2 AS degrees and a BS..Guess what I focused on Business and Econ and I DID NOT GET A SINGLE DIME FOR COLLEGE FROM THE GOVERNMENT OR MY PARENTS.

AS FAR AS HEALTH INSURANCE I HAVE A JOB IT DOESN'T PAY FOR INSURANCE IT COSTS ABOUT 425 A MONTH FOR HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS. this plan only covers after i spend 6000 dollars per year and it has a lifetime cap of 1 MILL..(this is catasrophic insurance)no prescriptions

WHEN I HAD A SALARY JOB THEY DEDUCTED 850 DOLLARS A MONTH FROM MY CHECK FOR HEALTH INSURANCE

This plan had a deductable of around 2500 and no prescription plan.

now on to the numbers for ss...

SS WAS INVENTED Life expectancy at birth in 1930 was only 58 for men and 62 for women, and the retirement age was 65.

Big trend on Boomers retiring at 62 NOT 65...The average life expectancy is around 82...Lets see I would say the system was never designed for a minimum of 20 years collecting benefits and if a person lives till 92 thats 30 years of benefits..

in 1935 the contributions of 17 workers paid for the benefits of one retiree

IN 2011 There are currently 2.9 workers for each Social Security beneficiary

(Increases in life expectancy are a factor in the long-range financing of Social Security; but other factors, such as the sheer size of the "baby boom" generation, and the relative proportion of workers to beneficiaries, are larger determinants of Social Security's future financial condition.)

YES I SEE MY FUTURE I AM GOING TO BE TAXED TO DEATH TO PAY FOR SOCIAL SECURITY THAT THE OLDER GENERATION DID NOT PAY ENOUGH INTO

My generation explain to me how we are suppose to pay for a system that was designed with 17 people paying for 1 retiree when today its basically two people supporting every retiree..

YOU BOOMERS ARE GOING TO NOW OFFER US THE FLAT TAX

GET RID OF OUR HOMEOWNERS DEDUCTIONS

AND NOW FOR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAD CHILDREN YOU BOOMERS WANT TO GET RID OF THE STANDARD DEDUCTIONs

YOU PAY LESS IN TAXES FOR RETIREMENT INCOME THAN WE PAY FOR GOING OUT AND HAVING A JOB..

YOU ARE TAXING US TO DEATH

YOU ARE LEAVING US WITH A MOUNTAIN OF DEBT to PAY FOR PENSION IN THE PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SECTOR

This argument has been going on since I was in Highschool..

REAGEN WANTED CHANGES IN SS your gneration REFUSED TO CONTRIBUTE THE RIGHT AMOUNT TO THE SS PROGRAM and now its real simple projections say my generation and the ones below will pay 12% minimum off the top of our checks to maintain the current projected numbers for ss benefits...

YOU ARE THE ONES RECEIVING ENTITLEMENTS WE ARE THE ONES EXPECTED TO WORK FOR MINIMUM WAGE WHILE BEING TAXED TO DEATH

and to ad insult to injury YOU JUST GOT A RAISE IN YOUR SS CHECK..

This is a joke right ?

Do you think that Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian will ever struggle to pay for school?

You Republicans realize that those are the people you are fighting for, right?

They are the %1, they are the 93,000 people that make over $1,000,000 a year in America. Are you one of those 93,000 people, no, so you must be one of the 150,300,000 that don't.

You do realize that HALF of all the money in the united states is held by them?

Half of all Americans make less than $26,000 a year, tell me what those 75,000,000 people are doing wrong that causes them to only make $500 a week. I guess you just don't think they are working hard enough to earn in 2 weeks, what one of those 93,000 earns in an hour at $1041 an hour.

Why do Republicans argue on behalf of these %1 of the people? Why not rally with your own kind, or at least your pay grade.

You actually believe that screaming at businesses to change rather than adapting yourself to the changes that have taken place does not in itself display a grand sense of entitlement?

Standing in a park whining isn't going to get them jobs.

Not everyone who is young and asking for the same opportunities is screaming in the park. You might be surprised at how many of us in Gen Y are actually against OWS!

Your generalization is embarrassing.

what do you mean, exactly, adapting to the changes? Like moving to China for a job?

Sure wish people would stop believing the unemployment numbers LIE. They did not lie during the last great depression. Those fortunate knew they were just that.."fortunate to have a job". How many times did we hear the old timers say that?.. And they also said "They were all in this mess together".... This time the door seems wide open for the ones who make a mess,to make things much worse.

My son graduated from college in the spring of2011. He was offered a great job after his junior year along with several other boys who shared a house with him. He and his friends have now begun working and are working on paying back their loans. As for those loans they are all around 30K give or take a couple thousand. I believe for what they got 30K is a deal. Why is it that almost everyone thinks 30K is no problem for a car loan but when it comes to education it's way too much? Our government can not and should not try to make up for poor decisions people have made themselves. For example getting degree's in fields which everyone knows pay very little. How about going to that expensive private college and living at that frat house. How about those party nights buying beer and food like it was free? My son went to a college who has been ranked almost every year in the top 10 of best value public schools. However it still comes down to decisions by the student and proper guidance from the parents. I for one am not willing to pay more to make up for poor decisions by others. Suck it up and find a job doing something. Many times if you're good that temp job can lead to something much better. Of course if you not good you can always show up and march somewhere and blame others.

Republicans have no empathy at all for the poor.

The lingering economic downturn is taking a toll on virtually everyone, but Americans under 35 are faring far worse than those over 65.

This is going to smack the GOP squarely upside the head over the next twenty years. As the Boomers fade away, these young people are going to remember today's GOP response.

This tragedy was caused by the "Baby Boomers" demanding and getting far more benefits than the system could possibly carry long term. Our parents mortgaged our future to enrich their retirements even though they knew such benefits would shorten the lives of their children.

The "Baby Boomers" are the worst generation ever.

Hey Rorschach, you are forgetting that we Seniors are here for much longer than 20 years and that we have a strong vote of what will and what will not be. Whenever these "poor" young people come to a point in life where they have amassed any wealth they will NOT support any Obama like BS and will be most likely vote Republican.

No they aren't! They will by then be in better shape and not be willing to raise taxes on themselves either.

Bigrivergal says they just want the same opportunities she had. Well, that isn't going to happen. The new generation is going to have to go out and make it happen. IT's not going to get handed to them. Law of labor supply and demand in a private sector says one must do something that the other guy wants to pay them for doing. Studying PoliSci, or phsychology then getting a gubmint job and sending the sheriff to collect taxes to generate your paycheck is not covered by that phrase "other guy wants to pay". Learning how to build something the other guy wants to buy will generate a job. Learning a professional skill is good too. But be careful many young lawyers complain there is too much competition and low pay now because 15 years ago til now many kids became lawyers because they heard the pay was high. Now there's too many and they depress their own profession's wages. Stop following the herd ? Stop demanding someone give the job to you. Gotta go make it yourself.

Remember, JEM #2.8, it's the alleged "Greatest Generation" that knocked out kids like a freaking bunny and created the Baby Boomers. Social Security was there long before we were born, and we paid into it our entire lives. As for retirements, we are the first generation that doesn't have pensions, but IRA's and 401K's that we contributed to. The Greatest Generation are the ones with the fat pensions AND SS on top of that.

My kid went to college and will graduate soon. To alleviate some of his college debt he enlisted in the Army, who offered him a sizable bonus to join, and the offer to pay for the rest of his tuition and housing. He will still come out with some debt but more manageable than some. Then he will be activated.

don't blame the Boomers, we worked hard our entire lives, and had our fair share of downsizings, rightsizings and reengineering by the greedy CEO's as the only way they could think of to grow business, and get their bonuses.

Republicans are the ones who removed laws that would have prevented the @!$%# storm Obama walked into the first day in office, and the Repubs have made it their business to sacrifice the unemployed and our economy by inaction, in order to make President Obama a one term President. you want to lay blame, look at the Tea baggers and Repugs.

The fiat based currency keynesian economic system coupled with technological improvements throughout all industries has removed most need for labor (setting aside the sellout of american jobs to global labor arbitrage by the corporatocracy for a moment). In each and every industry / field of work (outside of those requiring face to face or person to person contact for a service) the need for human labor is diminishing or being rendered obsolete at an exponential rate due to technology efficiencies across an enterprise.

The discussion needs to shift to: What is a overall level of taxation acceptable to taxpayers? What is an overall level of baseline subsistence financial support to maintain a minimal standard of living? How to enable the technological efficiencies gained throughout an economy to not accrue only wealth of the resources to a minute portion of it due to their control of the economic mechanisms.

Since all innovation is geared toward doing more with less, and tech enables more output / productivity without people, this problem will only get worse - short of an old fashioned low tech war a la WW2 or a major reorientation to some massive program and exploration of new world/ planets there is no turning back. It is indeed hot, crowded, and flat.

Over time we should have seen a more educated public with more leisure time to pursue other interests. Instead we get massive accrual of wealth by a few to those who can "steer" the ship, while fomenting a bubbling cauldron of class envy, an educational indoctrination system churning out pavlovian conditioned voting blocs, racial and political dissention, and enabling global labor arbitrage on the global plantation so they and their cronies (funders- why do think politicians spend millions on jobs that pay thousands?) can live high off the taxpayer.

This leads to massive underemployment, all under an expiring financial monetary system that is literally bankrupt - but are still playing the old carnival shell game to deceive people. Think of yourself as living in the last moments of the Roman Empire in 300-400 AD.

G**gle 'The Secret of Oz' video to begin your education.

kiwijapan

Hey Rorschach, you are forgetting that we Seniors are here for much longer than 20 years and that we have a strong vote of what will and what will not be

I'm not forgetting anything. I'm 55. I don't like what we've done to the younger generations. I hold US responsible for Reaganomics and everything that's followed.

This tragedy was caused by the "Baby Boomers" demanding and getting far more benefits than the system could possibly carry long term. Our parents mortgaged our future to enrich their retirements even though they knew such benefits would shorten the lives of their children.

JEM - you are an entitled, spoiled brat just like so many of your generation. Are you that disrespectful to your parents' faces? How about getting a job and working for what you want in life just like the Baby Boomer generation did? Follow the example set by Leprechaun's son. Put yourself through college and earn a degree in a viable field such as engineering rather than art history. If you need to do so, join military service to offset tuition costs. That probably is not what you want to do, though. You are expecting your parents' generation, those evil Baby Boomers, to pay your way, buy your cars, provide your housing and state-of-the-art cell phone service, full cable service, etc.

Get a life!

Did you do anything to discourage your children from incurring obscene amounts of college debt? Did you take the time to teach them about making rational financial decisions, unsecured loans or the time value of money? If not, why not? If you did and they ignored your advice it's on them.

I did Brian, then their father had a stroke and was disabled, and my salary alone is not enough to put them through college. The loss of his income and medical expenses ate up any extra income. The older one that listened is 26 and a shift manager for a pizza place. The younger one, who did not listen, is a senior in college possibly headed to medical school. Yes he has debt, but he also has a chance to make a good life for himself when the economy stabalizes. The older one has returned to college. He figured out that shift manager at a pizza place does not pay any more than the rent. What I would put in retirement goes to the one in college, it's not enough, but it helps. Which leaves a quadry for me.

Don't be so quick to judge.

There are factories in the US still? Just kidding (kinda). I applaud your efforts Reggie, but not everyone is capable of those sorts of hours, or has other obligations (like taking care of sick family, kids, etc.).

Plus U of Illinois is a pretty cheap college compared to many today. Tuition for many colleges tops $30k a year now. Even working full time, it is impossible to pay for school, transportation, eating and a roof over your head on the salaries most college kids have.

I see an issue when a kid goes to an expensive party school, plays around too much, and travels abroad using student loans. However, for the majority of students, these loans are for mere survival.

Succinct Rev, I hear ya. Brian's response makes it obvious he does not have children as there is no 'emotion' involved in his response. 'Did you teach your children blah blah blah like this is some 'normal' situation. Ha! But Brian, I have discouraged my children from getting into college debt and have also pointed out that the most menial jobs are asking for a college education with no measurable rate of return for the investment. Better to pay as you go or don't go if you can't pay (we are looking into other countries which have more to offer at 1/2 of the cost and US Univ. are recuiting heavily in other countries). Our American Universities are antiquated businesses still bowing to the 1% for coins to fund departments that INTEREST the 1%. This is why the For Profit colleges are kicking their butts collecting student dollars (especially GI Dollars). My son didn't 'qualify' for a student loan at UNLV but U of Phoenix For Profit was able to guarantee him a loan for TWO FULL YEARS. The reality is, since we have lost everything in an attempt to 'retain' the american dream, UNLV based his ability to 'qualify' for a student loan on our credit. Perfect in 2008 and not worth running 2011. And yes, like the Rev and I'd venture to guess, the majority, our children have been forced to either stay at home or move back home, typical for a Depression. They are lucky that Moms and Pops still has a roof to put over everyone's head.... Albeit a rented roof but hey, we count our blessings and we support OWS and see it as HOPE for our children that the 99% care about the future of this country beyond this generation and removing people who can only offer reinstatement of 'In God We Trust' and amending a law to allow for: 'Bullying a person is acceptable when doing it for religious reasons.' Those two things truly are evil and directly against my constitutional right of separation of church and state. Idiots.

Mark, what part of "no jobs available" do you not understand? You are lucky to be able to have one job in this recession, let alone 2 or 3. Thats what happens in a recession or a depression. No jobs available. Unless of course you have a college education, which has to be paid for somehow. Its a paradox.

American-American

I have three children, all three were given the opportunity to go to college under the condition that I would only pay up to the EFC, which was about enough to pay for in-state tuition and books. Anything beyond that they would have to pay for. The two older ones went for a year, dropped out and are currently making their way in the world both work full time skilled jobs with skills they learned in the service after dropping out. Our third went to the most expensive university in the country on a national Merit Scholarship, graduated in 2008 with a BS Political Science, about $16k in loans and is currently working part time at three different jobs. A college education is business. If you want to be emotional about business, go ahead. Emotion won't pay the bills and it anyone who incurred "an obscene amount" of loans for college did it out of ignorance not out of emotion.

@Brian-1075075

So your "solution" is that everyone should join the military and risk being sent off to Iraq or Afghanistan? Or that people should be working at jobs that are far below their potential? Is that what the future of America is?

I would read those questions carefully before responding.

As a result of the 2001 and 2003 bipartisan Bush-Era tax cuts, the U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007 and cut the unemployment rate to just 4.6%, a full employment economy. Those tax cuts did the job they were expected to do. Most of the benefits of those tax cuts, according to the Congressional Budget Office, went to the upper middle class, middle class and below, not upper income groups. Of course, Pelosi and Reid took control of Congress in Jan. 2007 and that is when the economy began to fall apart.

It's easy to create some jobs when you spend more than anybody before you. Reagan did pretty good too on the jobs front, but again it came from the massive debt he created. It borrows against the future and now you have the aftermath of debt and uncertainty. The economy began to fall apart under Bush. Didn't you live through the mess Peter or were you not paying attention? I work in the financial industry and it's amazing how many people don't even realize what really happened.

My parents are both Republicans and they were so upset when Obama won. I just laughed and told them it was the best thing to happen to the Republicans, because the Dems were screwed. They inherited the biggest pile of crap ever and nobody, not Reps or Dems was going to solve it.

Peter17,

It was NOT the tax cuts that created the jobs but it WAS the easy credit available to those people who could NOT afford but were borrowing and spending. On Sunday I was at a furniture store that is closing here in San Diego and the manager told me that in 2004 and 2005 each of his 6 salesman were making over 100K per year in commission. If I have to guess, most of those people who were buying couldn't afford to buy but they were using their easy credit available.

Sorry your not going to make people in these age groups feel any different.

You can continue to not respond to the the inequaties created by your generation. BUT THOSE OF US WHO ARE BEING TAXED TO DEATH TO PAY FOR PENSIONS AND SS AND MEDICARE DESERVE TO HAVE OUR VOICES HEARED..

WE ARE BEING TAXED TO DEATH THAT IS THE PROBLEM AND IT IS GENERATIONAL

No Peter, money is created out of thin air in an economy by borrowing. When a person takes out a loan is how money is put into the economy. You can't have so many people making so much money without producing anything. The economy was doomed to failure because it had nothing to support it. The easy credit created by the deregulation boomed the economy and everybody's pocket books by inflating the value of all assets.

wow Peter, that's quite a fairy tale !!

One of the most maddening elements of the current political environment is that Republicans publicly obsess over deficit reduction while simultaneously supporting policies that are driving up deficits. Late last year, Republican leaders forced through an extension of the Bush tax cuts for the highest income earners, even though the previous administration's signature economic policy had proven to be an expensive failure.

Yesterday, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office dealt another blow to Republicans clinging to the notion that the Bush tax cuts did not help fuel the surge in deficits over the past decade. In a new report, CBO estimates a cumulative deficit of $6.2 trillion from 2002-2011; with a price tag of $2.02 trillion, the Bush tax cuts, including last year's extension, are responsible for almost one-third of the shortfall.

Peter can i buy some pot from you....

The merger of globalization and I.T. is driving huge productivity gains, especially in recessionary times, where employers are finding it easier, cheaper and more necessary than ever to replace labor with machines, computers, robots and talented foreign workers. It used to be that only cheap foreign manual labor was easily available; now cheap foreign genius is easily available. This explains why corporations are getting richer and middle-skilled workers poorer. Good jobs do exist, but they require more education or technical skills. Unemployment today still remains relatively low for people with college degrees. But to get one of those degrees and to leverage it for a good job requires everyone to raise their game. It’s hard.

Grinnell College in rural Iowa, with 1,600 students, “nearly one of every 10 applicants being considered for the class of 2015 is from China.” The article noted that dozens of other American colleges and universities are seeing a similar surge as well. And the article added this fact: Half the “applicants from China this year have perfect scores of 800 on the math portion of the SAT.”

Not only does it take more skill to get a good job, but for those who are unable to raise their games, governments no longer can afford generous welfare support or cheap credit to be used to buy a home for nothing down — which created a lot of manual labor in construction and retail. Alas, for the 50 years after World War II, to be a president, mayor, governor or university president meant, more often than not, giving things away to people. Today, it means taking things away from people.

The Dems had control of all branches of government when the "Bush Tax Cuts" expired at the end of 2010 so they had every opportunity to end the tax cuts but they chickened out. Now they've got someone to blame and the whole exercise went right over your head. Wake up!

Yes, you're right! We should instead raise everyones taxes 25% and get everyone on a Government program so we can all line up each month for our rations of Government PB and cheese. Welcome to the United Socialist Republic of America.

Worked well for Russia.....

Look you two, I was there and watched what happened before my eyes and predicted exactly how the whole sham was to unravel and it was so so simple to start.Raise the price of one commodity pretty much the whole society uses and in the summer of 2007 to 2008 it was gasoline or does everyone immediately forget $4.00-$4-50/gallon gasoline?Bush wanted to give his oil executive cronies a huge gift and he did.Exxon and MObil reported profits those years that were absolutely obscene.And we all bent over and TOOK IT! Once that was done,pretty much everything else followed suit,no one could afford the gasoline bill,so the mortgage did'nt get paid..mortgages did'nt get paid,so that made the derivatives market unstable and crash bang the recession that was well hidden in the beginning of the 21st century reared it's ugly head..and here we are!

Gear is right. Read her or his posts above.

arney, what do you expect when the mantra from your side is "blame yourself if you don't have a job", "blame yourself if you're not rich", and "we don't care if you can't afford healthcare, so please die quietly".

fostering the democratic party, or fostering heartless bastards... It doesn't seem to be a very difficult decision.

I tend to wonder if they will, in fact, get out and vote, and I also wonder how many of the most vocal are even registered to vote. They are good at whining and complaining, but I don't see any real, overall trying to make lemonade out of lemons as many generations before have had to do. But what do you expect, for a goodly number, everything from cars to televisions to video gaming systems and cell phones were just handed to them by their parents, and now they are finding out how much all this cool stuff actually costs, and of course, they will scream ouch!

"Yeah, dern kids these days with their record players and their 8-tracks. Back in my day we had books, not these motion pictures that this new lazy generation has. Dern kids spend all their time in the arcade playin' games and such. Back in my day we had to walk a mile to school because my parents could not afford an automobile..."

Please just stop talking and regurgitating your over simplified blame-a-generation views.

cronewinter-1656821

Question, will their stilll be a US-Government to vote for these younger citizen?- Maybe their only choice will be the type of street-gang or Countryy-gang to vote for and join.

Nikki-1975634 Good arguments!

Bumpidybump You don't understand what the OWS is all about. Read this:

-------- What is the SIGNIFICANCE of these Word-wide OWS demonstrations?------
Prophetic words by Tom Friedman, the famous journalist with “The New York Times” are.
“Now let me say that in English: the European Union is cracking up. The Arab world is cracking up. China’s growth model is under pressure and America’s credit-driven capitalist model has suffered a warning [major] heart attack and needs a total rethink. Recasting any one of these alone would be huge. Doing all four at once — when the world has never been more interconnected - is mind-boggling. We are again present at the creation - but of what?

Never in the history of modern man has such a global event ever happened

As for America, we’ve thrived in recent decades with a “credit-consumption-led economy”, whereby we maintained a middle class by using more steroids (easy credit, subprime mortgages and construction work) and less muscle-building (education, skill-building and innovation). It’s put us in a deep hole, and the only way to dig out now is a new, hybrid politics that mixes spending cuts, tax increases, tax reform and investments in infrastructure, education, research [innovation] and production. But that mix is not the agenda of either party. Either our two parties find a way to collaborate in the center around this new hybrid politics, or a third party is going to emerge — or we’re stuck and the pain will just get worse”. ----

YES WE SHOULD VOTE TO STOP THE RUNAWAY SPENDING FOR SENIOR ENTITLEMENTS...If its not going to be there for us why should we pay into it ?

stop blaming the rich..YOU FOLKS ARE IN CONTROL OF THE ECONOMY...THE ECONOMY IN ALL NATIONS IS GEARED FOR THE RETIRED

That is what I keep saying.... why worry Obama will fix it....

and when is that going to happen? It certainly didn't happen this term.

When we get the radical republicans out of the way.

rlb-43 It's Your Money Obama is distributing!

The US Country-dumpty fell off the Wall-(street) and all of King Obama’s horses and all of his men can’t put “US Country-dumpty” back together again. --- I am sure however that “some” of his men actually do have good ideas, but King Obama uses these only for his “State of the Union address”, where he never means what he says or says what he means. What he did say was: We need to OUT- INNOVATE, to OUT- EDUCATE, and to OUT- BUILD the rest of the world”. (Never mind that the “US Country-dumpty” has just been downgraded to 5^th place in its “Global Ranking” for innovation.) However, I do have a “Prove of Concept” for the King’s pretended demands, which has cost me “10 engineering-man-years” to accomplish (my 1.5 Million donation), but it can’t wait, because by next year the US will be so short on money that it can’t afford innovations any longer. I wish I could get just one of “King’s men " to listen to me about “how to put our US Country-dumpty back together again”.

That is why I find it amusing when I hear old timer teabaggers compaining about those dang corrupt unions. greedy factory workers who make too much, and young people that want a job that they can at least put a roof over their head with and some food on the table. All the while the old timers probably had a nice paying job working in American manufacturing (when we still had it) and are now sitting at home with a cushy pension that they don't want younger workers to have. ...

Sorry, I have just heard way too many retired steelworkers turned teabagger in our area complaining about the unions and that workers want too much money...when they themselves had a comfortable life, nice home, sent their kids to college and now have a vacation house in Michigan, all thanks to their good wage and pension...

It was 1971 when Richard Nixon severed the last link our currency had with a gold standard. It was after the Federal Reserve was allowed to print all the new currency it saw fit that things started to fall apart.

I am retired military and started over at 37 with a retirement check of a little over $600 a month. I did not qualifiy for unemployment because I received my retirement check. I had 2 children and a spouse. I attended college on the GI bill, worked at night and with my $600 was able to graduate in 1995. Sorry but I feel no sympathy for those not doing everything they can to hold it together/make it. I was able to buy a small house which I paid off and bought another since then.

For those of you who feel that union workers are not overpaid.....why do they receive at least 50% to as much as twice what the same category of worker will receive in a non-union shop. They do the exact same job and for the sake of argument, we will say that each worker has equal training and education. The one lucky enough (and there is a certain amount of nepotism and cronism in how union jobs are awarded to new hires) to work in the union shop has greater benefits, greater salary, more generous vacation, sick time etc than the guy doing the same said job across the street....And, if we want to talk about big business greed....what about all those union bosses, the ones who don't even work in the factory but tell the workers when to strike etc. They get their full pay for the strike period while union workers make do with strike pay (which is going to pay bills about as much as unemployment does)...what about all the non-union workers, non-union companies, who get bumped out of lucrative contracts because they "don't pay the prevailing wage" (translate that to the union hourly dictate) for a given type of work or tasks.

“We need to OUT- INNOVATE, to OUT- EDUCATE, and to OUT- BUILD the rest of the world”; wrote a “Speech-writer” for the the 2011 “State of the Union address”. The “How-to” for these demands is the subject here.

In my paper “The Great American Nightmare” I am quoting seven famous CEOs who are certainly good men, but will these “few good men” ever do anything to help their country. At this time they haven’t even hinted at a remedy, but have all been preaching that the main reason for the collapse of our economy is the FATAL problem of a HUGE Foreign Trade Deficit. We can’t manufacture “trade goods” for the World anymore, simply because wages for workers and engineers are several times lower in other countries. “Outsourcing” will soon have "deindustrialized" our Nation. And there is no remedy for this if we are relying on the century’s old and outdated theory of Adam Smith, (“The Wealth of Nations” 1766), with its “Invisible hands”. His theory worked well for centuries and became the standard in business schools in the US. Ironically, it is just this theory which now causes the “deindustrialization” of our nation. The term “Invisible hands” refers to a method by which the “business community” itself initiates and controls economic growth by their own motives of “maximizing profits” and a “strong bottom-line”. (Some say it’s a euphemism for Greed and grabbing Power) It is a rare CEO or stockholder who has “job-creation” as part of his motives. “Wages” for jobs have always been just a necessary evil while making profits. Since in today’s Global economy wage differences between nations are substantial a US business, to be competitive, needs to “outsource” which then eliminates existing jobs and ends job creation. This has been extremely profitable for business, increasing the number of millionaires substantially, but made the “Labor Unions” powerless. Our Government has to step in now to replace the Union, but according to Adam Smith’ theory it can’t interfere at all; it is only to make capital availability for the (very visible) “greedy hands of business”. Adam Smith’ Economy is like cans of “Instant Fish” (just add water)

The universality of this old theory has now been disproved by Prof. Joseph Stiglitz who earned a Nobel Prize for this work, but he is being ignored here in the US, (not in other countries!) --- My proposal also requires some knowledge of the work of Prof. Peter Morici, but mainly of Prof. C.M. Christensen, on whose discovery of “Disruptive Technologies” my proposal is based; “The Innovators Dilemma”. (He told me that in his graduating class of 100 students only two could recognize a new disruptive technology; it’s that difficult.)

“CREATIVE” solutions and new kinds of “Skunk-Works” are needed to create COST/PERFORMANCE breakthroughs; innovations which use Prof. Christensen’s “Disruptive /Enabling” technologies to produce “Trade-goods” for the Global markets to pay back our dept. None of the present multi Billion dollar Keynesian spending programs have been targeted for this. Instead we are borrowing even more Billions just to generate temporary jobs in the non-trade-able sectors of the economy, such as work on roads and bridges etc, etc, which generate no trade-goods. In a healthy economy this might be “praiseworthy”, but in our extremely sick economy it only provides illusion of recovery (only good for covering the next election.). Only price-worthy Trade-goods will allow us to put our people back to work again permanently with acceptable wages.

Can it be done? Yes, I can prove it, if only for a single line of products, mind you, I am just ONE engineer. The first product should be marketed as quickly as possible as a PROVE of CONCEPT. It’s doable, because I worked on it for “10 engineering man-years” (it’s my $1.5 Mil donation) Additional help needed for starting production are some hardware and software engineers for a few months. The product will have a “two orders of magnitude” cost advantage and can be manufactures with $35 hourly wages in the U.S., but sold even in the Chinese markets. This single product alone would provide us with $100 Million annual profits, but more importantly, it would bring hundreds of suppressed ideas from other creative engineers out into the open. This will show the difference between Prof. C.M. Christensen’s observations about CEOs of industry suppressing “Disruptive” ideas versus quickly implementing these and getting Millions of our citizens back to work again. We need to “forcefully convince” our businesses leaders to embrace Disruptive/Enabling innovations instead of suppressing them. My paper above has the explanation why, putting a “famous CEO” (Jeffrey Immelt) in charge of the US economy is like “putting a fox in charge of the hen house”. -- It’s a death-sentence for our country.

Are you asking me Mr. CEO, “How can you expect thousand of engineers to come up with more of your “hair-brained” ideas of “Disruptive/ Enabling” innovations? --- First, it is not my idea, but the discovery of Professor Christensen. His research, in my opinion, is the most important finding by Harvard in a century. Second, I myself have 11 patens which are mostly of this “Disruptive/Enabling” kind and several that went into large scale production proved to be extremely reliable in the field. This reliability and my designs being always on schedule were appreciated by management. However, the much lower cost for my “disruptive/ enabling” designs was not. (Less profits for a Tele-com monopoly) --- About answering your “question”. Sorry, I don’t have a definite answer, only some Hope, which is surely needed, because,--- RIGHT NOW WE ARE LOOSING THIS ECONOMIC WAR

@Sue-3329001

Because that pay is the "fair pay" which represents their share of the profits since they did the work to create the products/services that allow the profits to be made. (Labor ALWAYS comes before capital. Without labor, no capital can exist. After all if you don't produce anything, where are the savings that would become capital? Duh!)

If you did not get your cut, you should blame yourself for not looking out for it. Stop wasting your time saying: "Hey, look, they got a cut of the profits because they were smart enough to band together and ask for a raise, bonus, pension or whatever".

Why don't you do the same? The pendulum has swung too far. What remains is idiocy.

I graduated just in time for the fallout from much of the Carter administration policies....couldn't get a job that was remotely connected to my education and had a serious amount of student loan debt to be repaid in relation to the salaries that could be expected at the time. Things started to improve and pick up, but it still took 8 years to clear the student debt, and that required working multiple jobs that still didn't have much to do with what I hoped to accomplish with my education. I washed dishes in restaurants, did janitorial work, worked with lawn maintenance, worked through temp agencies, none of it glamorous and none of it paying big bucks. And just about the time that I truly felt that we were making headway and might actually start earning up to the potential of our education (and now, actual paid work experiences), welcome Mr Clinton and NAFTA and a host of other social entitlements that served to increase what it was costing me, costing my employer, costing my community, and therefore erroding my progress forward in terms of income....Would have loved to transition into a job that was "more professional" more of a career instead of a job to pay bills, but now, as I have been out of school for a number of years, my degree doesn't seem to be worth as much...but can't afford to go back to school to update skills or add new ones...don't qualify for any sort of financial aid, because I make too much money (which is truly laughable)...so stuck, stuck, stuck and watching my income (what I can actually use to "consume" goods and services go backwards.) Bigger payments for insurance, higher co-payments at the doctor, the hospital, the pharmacy, because my government is giving it away free to people who are not even legally here. Like alot of people, I also have a family to raise and aging parents to assist....further depletion of what wasn't a great income anyway....and then my eldest gets ready to graduate college into the Obama mess and cannot get anything remotely related to his area of study (and no, I am not talking about something like Women's Studies or Cultural Diversity Studies...that doesn't necessarily have a direct value in the world of real jobs), and he is doing whatever it takes to pay off student loans. And Mom and Dad, are also on the hook, because due to all the defaults that the government allowed to occur and didn't not pursue, now alot of the loan programs work by making the parent's co-sign the loans.....so, we get to make up the difference from what he cannot earn for himself. So, every single time that it seems that I am going to get my foot out of the bucket and actually be able to start saving for some of the dreams that I had, way back when, when I was told that working hard and being well-educated was all that it took to achieve the American Dream (what a load of horse puckey)....here come the blessed liberals, telling me how I should feel badly for the underpriveleged and willingly suck in my belt and do without, so that they can have: better clothing than me and my children, nicer cars, bigger homes, bigger and more TVs and toys, free food at the grocery along with their kids having free breakfasts and lunches at school. Their kids get free eye exams, dental exams, physicals, innoculations, while I have to pay for these things....And what hurts the most, is that even if the situation is Washington were to change with the next election, and an era more conducive to job creation and business expansion were to begin: A) my savings and financial situation are so devastated that I don't think I could begin to cure it in time for retirement-even with retirement being put farther and farther off. B) now, when I go to the work world, I get to fight for positions with kids that are the age of my children, and whether or not it is legal, older workers do not usually get first consideration-so I get to look forward to age discrimination. Then lucky me, I will get to retire (or be forced to do so to make way for new workers) and the government is going to tell me that there is no social security, no medic care, and why didn't I save for my future????? I will reach the ripe old age of 72, and under the present administrations notion of fair health care for all, I will be totally and completely expendable. I will not receive treatment because of my age, and the only think missing will be the L tablet.....Yeah, Mr Obama and the liberals care so much about me and my well being and so truly want what is best for me and my family....(expletives deleted!!!!!!!)

Welcome to the real world Sue..If you think anyone cares about your well-being but you then you will stay where you are..just the way the system works.Remember,this is America,it is what you make it.

sryan --- GREAT post,

-------- What is the SIGNIFICANCE of these Word-wide OWS demonstrations?------
Prophetic words by Tom Friedman, the famous journalist with “The New York Times” are.
“Now let me say that in English: the European Union is cracking up. The Arab world is cracking up. China’s growth model is under pressure and America’s credit-driven capitalist model has suffered a warning [major] heart attack and needs a total rethink. Recasting any one of these alone would be huge. Doing all four at once — when the world has never been more interconnected - is mind-boggling. We are again present at the creation - but of what?

Never in the history of modern man has such a global event ever happened

As for America, we’ve thrived in recent decades with a “credit-consumption-led economy”, whereby we maintained a middle class by using more steroids (easy credit, subprime mortgages and construction work) and less muscle-building (education, skill-building and innovation). It’s put us in a deep hole, and the only way to dig out now is a new, hybrid politics that mixes spending cuts, tax increases, tax reform and investments in infrastructure, education, research [innovation] and production. But that mix is not the agenda of either party. Either our two parties find a way to collaborate in the center around this new hybrid politics, or a third party is going to emerge — or we’re stuck and the pain will just get worse”. ----

@Sue-3329001

So if your life sucked, does that mean everyone else's life should suck too?

This is the thing I don't get about some people. If they had good luck, they look down at others (the better their luck, the more defensive they get). If they had bad luck, they want everyone else's life to stink too.

The goal in life is to climb upward and then to pass it forward so they can climb even higher:

Become good farmers so that your children can become engineers and scientists. Become good engineers and scientists so your children can become artists and philosophers.

Okay, so anyone younger than a Baby boomer has the right to expect free education and free everything else???? At whose expense? But if you happen to be part of the Boomer generation, you are ipso facto greedy and unrealistic and padding your own retirement at the expense of everyone else???? If you look at labor statistics, the Boomer generation probably worked more years and more hours per capita than any other generation....By the way, anyone born after 1960 is not considered a Boomer, so the CEOs and mega bosses in their 40's and 50's now, by and large born after the Boomer generation...so blaming the Boomers is illogical.

Right you are Sue-3329001

Not all of us are whining. Consider "growing up".

who is the one displaying a sense of entitlement now? :/

No the younger people want things to be fair. Like you putting 25K into Social security and drawing out over 100K in your life time. Like free medicare. How about you use your savings to pay for your own health care instead of having the working class pay for it. Everyone should pay there own way and get back just what was paid into it. The older generation's union activities that have bankrupted our country on un-sustainable contracts. The older generation should be ashamed of where we are today and it is all the fault of the older generation why the younger generation will not have it better. The Yuppies and those before them have lived hoggishly off the backs of the young and now they should reap what they have sown. Redistribute the wealth and use that topay for SS and Medicaire freebies for the old. These programs are all legalized welfare anyway.

What inheritance?

Increasing longevity has exacerbated the disparity for sure. There is a huge difference in when and at which age the next generation inherits the previous one's wealth. When average longevity was 63 (start of Social Security), most inheritances occurred when the next generation was in their 40s. Now, with typical longevity, inheritances don't occur until the next generation is in their 60s.

Hi absolutelyright you are abdolutelywrong!

Answer this: WHERE HAVE ALL THE JOBS GONE?

In my paper “The Great American Nightmare” I am quoting seven famous CEOs who are certainly good men, but will these “few good men” ever do anything to help their country. At this time they haven’t even hinted at a remedy, but have all been preaching that the main reason for the collapse of our economy is the FATAL problem of a HUGE Foreign Trade Deficit. We can’t manufacture “trade goods” for the World anymore, simply because wages for workers and engineers are several times lower in other countries. “Outsourcing” will soon have "deindustrialized" our Nation. And there is no remedy for this if we are relying on the century’s old and outdated theory of Adam Smith, (“The Wealth of Nations” 1766), with its “Invisible hands”. His theory worked well for centuries and became the standard in business schools in the US. Ironically, it is just this theory which now causes the “deindustrialization” of our nation. The term “Invisible hands” refers to a method by which the “business community” itself initiates and controls economic growth by their own motives of “maximizing profits” and a “strong bottom-line”. (Some say it’s a euphemism for Greed and grabbing Power) It is a rare CEO or stockholder who has “job-creation” as part of his motives. “Wages” for jobs have always been just a necessary evil while making profits. Since in today’s Global economy wage differences between nations are substantial a US business, to be competitive, needs to “outsource” which then eliminates existing jobs and ends job creation. This has been extremely profitable for business, increasing the number of millionaires substantially, but made the “Labor Unions” powerless. Our Government has to step in now to replace the Union, but according to Adam Smith’ theory it can’t interfere at all; it is only to make capital availability for the (very visible) “greedy hands of business”. Adam Smith’ Economy is like cans of “Instant Fish” (just add water)

“CREATIVE” solutions and new kinds of “Skunk-Works” are needed to create COST/PERFORMANCE breakthroughs; innovations which use Prof. Christensen’s “Disruptive /Enabling” technologies to produce “Trade-goods” for the Global markets to pay back our dept. None of the present multi Billion dollar Keynesian spending programs have been targeted for this. Instead we are borrowing even more Billions just to generate temporary jobs in the non-trade-able sectors of the economy, such as work on roads and bridges etc, etc, which generate no trade-goods. In a healthy economy this might be “praiseworthy”, but in our extremely sick economy it only provides illusion of recovery (only good for covering the next election.). Only price-worthy Trade-goods will allow us to put our people back to work again permanently with acceptable wages.

@Harry Winter2

The main problem with capitalism is that always ends with the most aggressive and most selfish and greedy individuals holding the most wealth. In a better system, everyone works but everyone is also rewarded properly for their effort. Given the huge income divides in the U.S., this is clearly not happening. The majority of people are not being paid enough for what they do and a few are paid far and above what they deserve. In a system like that, all you can ever expect is that you will have a situation, in the end, after the continuous improvements in productivity that is required to continue maximimizing profits, fewer and fewer people will retain the means other their jobs to support themselves. The seeds of the system's own destruction is built into it.

The idea of the "ownership society" would work; you can live off your wealth. But a capitalist economy alone will not get you there because it always focuses most of the wealth into a few small corners. Some people say, in capitalism, this corrects itself through bankruptcies and business failures. But, given that we have a political situation where laws and regulations can be remade to whatever the wealthiest want it to be, this does NOT seem likely. Wealth is preserved through creative accounting made to avoid accountability and shifts the cost to everyone else. In that situation, the continued concentration of wealth can only be resolved by breaking the cycle between wealth and political power.

American capitalism has become a black hole. Everything eventually falls in and nothing comes out.

Right- the Boomers traded in their VW vans in 60's (when they were unhappy with the establishment) for Jags and Beemers in the 80's and can't understand why young people have an issue with the lack of opportunity in the country. Now that they are the establishment, they can't conceive of why anyone would have a problem with what they've done.

Recent college grads are now facing a system set up for and by the wealthy and powerful and discover that their parents and grandparents have sold out their futures for short-term gain. Can't imagine why they'd be a little bit peeved.

Can anyone on the other side answer this question- if the vast majority of consumers can't spend because they have no discretionary income, and the government can't spend because the Republican party has been co-opted by the tea party- who will create the demand that will drive growth and create jobs? Or has that really been the point all along? You guys are actively supporting the destruction of the system you purport to love.

Sryan, exactly right! Let's get our taxes lower by handing over our younger generation to the bankers that hold their college loans. Ridiculous and so selfish- must have been a republican idea. It is a disgrace. We need to help our younger generation. This situation stinks, the "wealthy" better watch out, no jobs and big debts equal social unrest- count on it.

Readabook, don't categorize all of us old people as the arrogant wealthy few. I never approved the raiding/spending of social security funds. There should be a huge surplus and your taxes should be lower. They are not lower because the social security funds are spent, they were used to make up for not raising taxes by past administrations starting with Reagan. I am just as screwed as you are. They took funds from my paychecks for 35 years, now they want to say so what!!! The money is gone. When the riots start i will be right there next to you, count on that. There are many old people who are in my boat- 401 depleted, no pensions and a republican party that wants to tax Social Security- It is the greed heads, young and old, they have purchased political influence and they are trying to screw us- again. let's stick together readabook, we can take them- they are few and we are many.

Syran4219- I totally agree! I have one son who graduated from college 2 years ago, and just now found a full-time job. My husband and I had to help him out with rent for a few months. Luckily he doesn't have a large college loan to repay, since he worked summers all thru college and got good scholarships, but the job market IS a nightmare. How can our country continue to function with so much of the wealth clutched in the hands of so few people while there are so many people scrambling to find jobs, even at fast-food restaurants or temp work in factories?

Don't you get it....the student debt load is so high for some students, because the education is being given away free to others...just like health care. The univeristies, colleges, hospitals...are all going to have to make their money somewhere, and make up for those that are served who pay little or nothing...and, while I wholeheartedly agree that the job situation is horrific, there is also a goodly cache of students who feel that alot of work is beneath them and won't accept jobs because it doesn't pay enough...You know, having half the rent money is better for them and for their families who are helping them than no rent money at all.

If President Obama wants to be remembered as an honorable man; he should soon resign from his post, just as the President of Greece did it and as the President of Italy has now also announced it. --- If not, he will go down in history as the man who destroyed America and caused Millions of its citizens to be killed. There will be the second civil war in America and, as in all wars; --- it’s the YOUNG who do most of the dieing.

@Sue-3329001

The student debts are higher because the $1 TRILLION that could have paid for EVERY COLLEGE STUDENT'S EDUCATION FOR THE ENTIRE DECADE was spent in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And, that was before we had to directly spend $500 BILLION bailing out the financial industry of their mistakes because the Bush regulators were asleep at the wheel. Gee, I wonder what we could have done with that money. Oh, I don't know - maybe rebuild our infrastructure and create 1 MILLION jobs for an entire decade and create a multiplier effect that could have created another 3 MILLION jobs on top of that? If you used the indirect supports with 0% Fed rates and "loans", you would get numbers 4 TIMES as big as these massive numbers.

All of these numbers are real. Work them out. They are realistic scenarios based on realistic wages, prices and averages.

The Obama phenomenon.
August 18, 2011 Obama: “The Affirmative Action President”, By Matt Patterson (columnist - Washington Post, New York Post, San Francisco Examiner) .

Years from now, historians may regard the 2008 election of Barack Obama as an inscrutable and disturbing phenomenon, a baffling breed of mass hysteria akin perhaps to the witch craze of the Middle Ages. How, they will wonder, did a man so devoid of professional accomplishment beguile so many into thinking he could manage the world's largest economy, direct the world's most powerful military, execute the world's most consequential job? .
Imagine a future historian examining Obama's pre-presidential life: ushered into and through the Ivy League despite unremarkable grades and test scores along the way; a cushy non-job as a "community organizer"; a brief career as a state legislator devoid of legislative achievement (and in fact nearly devoid of his attention, so often did he vote "present"); and finally an unaccomplished single term in United States Senate, the entirety of which was devoted to his presidential ambitions. He left no academic legacy in academia, authored no signature legislation as legislator.And then there is the matter of his troubling associations: the white-hating, America-loathing preacher who for decades served as Obama's "spiritual mentor"; a real-life, actual terrorist who served as Obama's colleague and political sponsor. It is easy to imagine a future historian looking at it all and asking: how on Earth was such a man elected president?Not content to wait for history, the incomparable Norman Podhoretz addressed the question recently in the Wall Street Journal:To be sure, no white candidate who had close associations with an outspoken hater of America like Jeremiah Wright and an unrepentant terrorist like Bill Ayers would have lasted a single day. But because Mr. Obama was black, and therefore entitled in the eyes of liberaldom to have hung out with protesters against various American injustices, even if they were a bit extreme, he was given a pass. .
Let that sink in: Obama was given a pass -- held to a lower standard -- because of the color of his skin. Podhoretz continues:And in any case, what did such ancient history matter when he was also articulate and elegant and (as he himself had said) "non-threatening," all of which gave him a fighting chance to become the first black president and thereby to lay the curse of racism to rest? .
Podhoretz puts his finger, I think, on the animating pulse of the Obama phenomenon -- affirmative action. Not in the legal sense, of course. But certainly in the motivating sentiment behind all affirmative action laws and regulations, which are designed primarily to make white people, and especially white liberals, feel good about themselves. .
Unfortunately, minorities often suffer so that whites can pat themselves on the back. Liberals routinely admit minorities to schools for which they are not qualified, yet take no responsibility for the inevitable poor performance and high drop-out rates which follow. Liberals don't care if these minority students fail; liberals aren't around to witness the emotional devastation and deflated self esteem resulting from the racist policy that is affirmative action. Yes, racist. Holding someone to a separate standard merely because of the color of his skin -- that's affirmative action in a nutshell, and if that isn't racism, then nothing is. And that is what America did to Obama. .
True, Obama himself was never troubled by his lack of achievements, but why would he be? As many have noted, Obama was told he was good enough for Columbia despite undistinguished grades at Occidental; he was told he was good enough for the US Senate despite a mediocre record in Illinois ; he was told he was good enough to be president despite no record at all in the Senate. All his life, every step of the way, Obama was told he was good enough for the next step, in spite of ample evidence to the contrary. What could this breed if not the sort of empty narcissism on display every time Obama speaks? .
In 2008, many who agreed that he lacked executive qualifications nonetheless raved about Obama's oratory skills, intellect, and cool character. Those people -- conservatives included -- ought now to be deeply embarrassed. The man thinks and speaks in the hoariest of clichés, and that's when he has his teleprompter in front of him; when the prompter is absent he can barely think or speak at all. Not one original idea has ever issued from his mouth -- it's all warmed-over Marxism of the kind that has failed over and over again for 100 years. .
And what about his character? Obama is constantly blaming anything and everything else for his troubles. Bush did it; it was bad luck; I inherited this mess. It is embarrassing to see a president so willing to advertise his own powerlessness, so comfortable with his own incompetence. But really, what were we to expect? The man has never been responsible for anything, so how do we expect him to act responsibly? .
In short: our president is a small and small-minded man, with neither the temperament nor the intellect to handle his job. When you understand that, and only when you understand that, will the current erosion of liberty and prosperity make sense. It could not have gone otherwise with such a man in the Oval Office. .
But hey, at least we got to feel good about ourselves for a little while. And really, isn't that all that matters

@Harry Winter2

What was the alternative? An octogenarian with someone even greener (Palin) one heartbeat from the Presidency? Can you say puppet regime?

And, Bush Jr was not exactly a bright light of humanity either. Were you complaining then or were you just asleep for the ride back then?

If you did not say or do anything as the foundation of the country was being destroyed, I have no sympathy for your viewpoints.

And how much are you being paid to be a DNC shill??

Neither party has the best interests of Americans at heart. The fact that this isn't crystal clear to everybody is rather worrisome to me.

bush democrat- Voting is not going to help at this point. There is no one available in either present political party who hasn't been bought out by greedy corporations or big banks. The old worn-out notion of making needed changes by voting for one party or the other can't work when the elections are in the hands of super-wealthy billionaires with most of their money in off-shore accounts. Changes have to be made that will put a stop to corporate ownership of the political candidates and the Congress, or voting will be a lost cause.

Just so that you are completely in the know.......Nobody has paid me a dime to be completely and totally fed up with government spending and give away policies (which I, personally, never seem to qualify for on any level, other than to contribute to the pool which pays them) which has quite frankly trashed me entire adult life. Did it ever occur to anyone that if you really listen, the people you like to ridicule and put down for their conservative stance are saying much the same thing. Don't expect government to solve my problems or pay my bills, just don't put so many obstacles in my way that I can never get past the rules and actually accomplish something.

I would bet these people in the park are just like the pan handlers you see begging along the highway. I'd love to see a media source send out someone offering work to these people and just watch them find an excuse why they can't take that job. They don't just want a job, they want a job with a big salary and all the trappings. I'm just not buying what their selling!

If you spend a lot of money for a college degree then you want something that pays more then minimum wage.Minimum wage does not pay the bills more less than money spent for that college degree. People like you have all the answers but have never walked a mile in those peoples shoes. A lot of people that are in this group have college degrees or have degrees and been out of work or have been laid off. They just want the same thing you have a decent job with a decent wage to pay their bill and put a roof over their heads or to just be able to keep the roof they have.

Theyre certainly not the sharpest knives in the drawer are they.. They actually think if the government raises taxes on the rich they will somehow be the recipients of a big paycheck.... LOLOL... Thats a gas aint it... Instead of the Guy Fawkes masks' they should be wearing Bozo the Clown shoes and big red nose...

No Steve-267218 --- not quite right!

-------- What is the SIGNIFICANCE of these Word-wide OWS demonstrations?------
Prophetic words by Tom Friedman, the famous journalist with “The New York Times” are.
“Now let me say that in English: the European Union is cracking up. The Arab world is cracking up. China’s growth model is under pressure and America’s credit-driven capitalist model has suffered a warning [major] heart attack and needs a total rethink. Recasting any one of these alone would be huge. Doing all four at once — when the world has never been more interconnected - is mind-boggling. We are again present at the creation - but of what?

Never in the history of modern man has such a global event ever happened

As for America, we’ve thrived in recent decades with a “credit-consumption-led economy”, whereby we maintained a middle class by using more steroids (easy credit, subprime mortgages and construction work) and less muscle-building (education, skill-building and innovation). It’s put us in a deep hole, and the only way to dig out now is a new, hybrid politics that mixes spending cuts, tax increases, tax reform and investments in infrastructure, education, research [innovation] and production. But that mix is not the agenda of either party. Either our two parties find a way to collaborate in the center around this new hybrid politics, or a third party is going to emerge — or we’re stuck and the pain will just get worse”. ----

@Steve-267218

Yeh, it is so much better when megacorp sends you the bill directly. Cut out the facade and middle man.