That or they go for some ridiculous major like underwater basket weaving so that they can party it up and have the "college experience". Then graduation and reality set hit them in the face. No one wants to hire someone who majored in underwater basket weaving... let alone when there are thousands of them.

I went to school and got one of those real degrees I could get a job with.

I got a job in my field that I love.

I get up to be at work at 6:30 am to work well into the evening.

I have no debt because I don't live outside my means.

I'm proud to be the 1% that actually works my butt off from my generation rather than expecting someone to hand me my dreams on a platter.

And yes, I'd rather hire some illegal alien who has the work ethic to show up to work, work hard then to hire some of those mindless occupy protesters who expect handouts from Uncle Sam just like they got from their daddies.

It is much much more than 1% that work their butt off (at least where I attended as that's thge only data I can try to obtain). I'd go more along the lines of 30/70 for the percentages of those who want to work versus who want to party and coast through.

happygolucky,

That or they go for some ridiculous major like underwater basket weaving so that they can party it up and have the "college experience". Then graduation and reality set hit them in the face.

In my experience, most of these people do not ever graduate. So they have the burden of student loans without the degree to help pay for them.

And by the way, a lot of people really do work hard. I've never run into a slacker in my line of work, but I tend to work with degreed professionals.

Must be nice to be one of the 1% who think anyone who doesn't make that kind of money is a slacker. Screw you. Many of us who got a degree WORK VERY HARD and don't see the benefits no thanks to the same corporations who look to screw us over any way they can.

Yesterday was an article on how student loans overshadowed the benefit of going to colleg. Today, the punch line is that it is worth it, anyway. Can we get any consistency within a two day time frame?

It is naive to assume that high pay is always equated with hard work.

Some of the people doing the hardest work get the least amount in pay. They are essential to the functioning of society yet are underpaid.

The reason for college education is the degree so you can get paid well and not literally work yourself to death.

College used to teach you to work smart so you didnt have to work hard your whole life. The key is to make you money work harder than you do.

With the exception of degrees aimed at highly specific career paths (e.g. pre-med, pre-law, education, architecture etc), I think it's less about your chosen major than what you want to do with it and how you present it to potential employers. Thus, a sociology or humanities degree doesn't necessarily relegate you to the soup lines as long as you can effectively communicate how that education can be of value to an employer for a given position.

It's the classic and fundamental "features & benefits" principle of selling. That is, the customer (i.e. employer) couldn't care less about the feature (i.e. your major) relative to the benefits he/she can realize from that feature. It's incredible how many people fail to realize that job-hunting is ultimately a sales process - and the product is you.

I am always shocked at people that would go to college and get a degree in Business Administration. That's just asking for a low paid job that anyone can do. Get more specific...accounting at the least.

Happygolucky, I think your ego is in the top 1% too.

@BJs65: When did I ever say that anyone who doesn't make my type of money is a slacker? I said I worked my ass off for my degree and I don't live outside of my means, running up credit cards and getting into debt. Nor did I say that money is happiness. I am saving for a house and for the time that I expect my industry to crash and me to lose a job. I think by saying screw me is really uncalled for. I don't care if you hate my opinion, but at least have some maturity and not try and stop the argument because you have no more valid points.

@CalMark123: Actually no, just tired of people from my generation whining about how their dreams aren't being handed to them. Yea we were told that if we can dream sky high and anything was possible and yes we were told go to college to get good jobs. But when most of us graduated, many expected great things from no work. Our parents told us to dream sky high to give us something to work towards and we went to school to give ourselves the foundation to achieve those dreams. Some where it was lost that what was also needed was hard work. This country was founded on hard work and unfortuantely, I think many of our parents only told of us of hard work rather than let us do the hard work to achieve what we wanted. And that is what has failed many.

I don't know that I agree with you. It is all about being smart with your degree. My first undergraduate degree was in History and German. Then I went to work in business as an analyst. Being able to write well was invaluable, and I leveraged my communication abilities.

As my career grew, I branched off into technical analysis-type duties. It is rare to find someone who understands numbers/analysis who can also clearly communicate what those mean in plain English. It also doesn't hurt that I have a knack for understanding computer programming languages and am willing to spend personal time learning the 'extras'. I make a great liaison between the senior staff who create the vision and the programming staff charged with implementing the vision.

I am now working on a (company paid-for) degree in Applied Mathematics so that I can further leverage my 'wasted' Liberal Arts skills with my on-the-job acquired technical skills. Being well-rounded has kept me out of a career rut. My duties constantly change since I am so adaptable and this suits me very well.

super x,

As much as I don't get art, I know there is a place for them in society. Anybody who chooses liberal arts because it is easy won't be graduating with a degree in anything. They will flunk out.

super x, that is a funny, thought tunnelvisioned, viewpoint. Liberal Arts was certainly created in an age that people believed that whatever you studied, it would benefit you in the world and in a job. And the stats bear out that even studying liberal arts is better than having no degree at all. So, your point is silly.

Personally, I would prefer to study a non-liberal art field if I went back to school. And I don't think taking out a huge studen loan is necessarily worth it for liberal arts. But it is fair to say that you are going to make money with any college degree than without, as a generalization. if for no other reason that companies still tend to hire those with degrees. Now, potential, speaking, I know plenty of non-grads that contribute a lot more to society and make more money than grads, but that is a different topic.

One thing about the arts - employment opportunities are slim; but if one gets adept in an art - their salary limit is the sky.

Liberal Arts isn't really about the arts...

Liberal Arts can be better defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts
It's more about well rounded study of curriculum than just the visual arts.

A Bachelor of Fine Arts is where you get painters, sculptors, glass blowers, photographers, and graphic designers.

The market for most of these specific majors are slim, but the market for photojournalists, which aren't BFAs, is high and the market for Graphic designers is pretty damn good too.

Liberal arts has nothing to do with art and much more to do with critical thinking and evaluation. Someone with a good liberal arts education who took it seriously (included many disciplines--history, literature, philosophy, etc) can do extremely well in fields where specific technical skills are not required. Not to mention that a good L.A. education makes a law degree that much more valuable.

If you dont have the big 3, the rest of your effort is wasted:

Math - so you can protect your money from scammers.

Science - so you can think through problems clearly.

Language - so you leverage work from others and tell others what you discovered.

One thing about the arts - employment opportunities are slim; but if one gets adept in an art - their salary limit is the sky.

(Minus that liberal arts degrees aren't about the arts) Funny, I have an BFA in Theatre Design and I'm an MFA candidate for the same. I have yet to be unemployed during the summer, in my chosen field and I am being paid to go to grad school.

Math - so you can protect your money from scammers.

Science - so you can think through problems clearly.

Language - so you leverage work from others and tell others what you discovered.

Simply not true. These things are important. But I find that Loving what you do and being good at it are the two most important things in the world. Why on earth would I want to sit in an office or learn law or math or something when it doesn't interest me? How would I be a valuable worker if I wasn't dedicated to what I was doing?

Sounds kind of narrow minded to me. If you know C and C++ you can learn any language, almost all are based on those two.

Colleges in every degree don't tell you HOW to do your job, just give you the foundation to LEARN how to do your job.

I'm an Electrical Engineer. They don't teach you in school how to build an internet connected HDTV, or develop your own custom RF radio, build a cell phone, etc etc. But they do teach you how resistors, capacitors, transistors, etc etc all work. They tech the theories of electromagnetic fields, the concepts of wireless communication, the basics of programming and digital logic.

Then you get a job and the real learning begins, the company trains you up to perform the specific job function they need you for and you start to learn all the inner workings of the products they develop. You then go onto lead teams of engineers and develop all new products or evolutions of existing products.

College is only the start of your education =)

I'm sure if you picked up a book on Java, or C#, or whatever it is they want you'll be able to learn it very quickly. You shouldn't stumble over what is object oriented programing, what the heck is an array, or what on earth is an algorithm. You already know all that.

While it is true that a lot of the college education may be antiquated when it comes to the language, the principles haven't changed. Fundamentally you have either Object Oriented Programming (C#, C++, Java, etc) or Structured Programming (C, Pascal, Fortran, Basic, COBOL, scripting, etc). Each has its uses and I am using both almost daily. I graduated with a BS in '93 and have maintained a good job, in fact from even before I graduated.

The language taught isn't really that relevant. It's the skill set you learn along with some hard work. When you get into a job you then take the time to learn the language, it's just syntax. As long as you know the fundamentals then you can be a decent software engineer in any language.

Monkeynucleosis - it sounds like you don't love the field you picked which is why you aren't really benefiting from it. Usually those that get into a technical and mathematical field love what they do long before they go to school for it and studying related topics is more of a passion than a job. Maybe you can find something technically related on the peripheral (tech doc writer? analyst?) where you can apply some techniques you learned but its not so implementation specific. The market is pretty hot right (for tech jobs at least) now so its not a bad time to spruce up the resume. Best of luck!

Capn-1 and the others do all make very good points. I can easilyt adapt what I have learned (and I am to learn Delta-V programming soon for my career). I was just rather aggrivated at the fact they just cared to teach me more about Microsoft Word than about programming language.

charles: I actually enjoyed a few of the classes towards the end because they got into the actual nuts and bolts programming and systems analysis and creation. But everything before that was basically learning how to drag and drop or how to use Microsoft Office. and best of luck to you as well, sir.

Capn-1 is right. Don't expect the college to teach you any of these languages. C and C++ were the most current languages I used in college and I've had no problems since graduating back in 1997. In fact, they didn't really even "teach" you those languages. You were expected to learn them on your own and from your previous knowledge and from a 10 page pamphlet they provided you. Once I graduated and landed a job, I learned Perl, Java, C# and Python due to business needs. Another thing you need to keep in mind is that you should fine tune specific skill sets that interest you. For example, I started as a developer but then focused on software configuration management. This is a niche area that very few CS majors have the skills for. Therefore, when the demand is there, you have a lot of leverage.

@ Monkey - Welcome to the Automation field. It's one I find very interesting. How many places can you work that has the opportunity to have such a major impact on millions of people around you. I've found it gratifying from time to time to look back at all the projects I've worked on and think of how many millions of people get power and water from my programs/work or how many millions of people can flush and have it all safely gone because of my programs/work. There there's the really cool stuff like launch vehicles or high energy experiments that involve my programs/work.

I'm assuming you went to work for Emerson since you mentioned learning to program Delta-V. (I guess it could easily be an integrator too.) You should have plenty of opportunityto see your work do wonderful things.

@Gneisenau: One of the major companies I contract too does a lot of business with Emerson so it's the program they want me familiar with first. I am also attempting Cimpilicity at the Stainless Steel Mill I am consistently contracted to.

I have actually gotten to work for the local power plants and many of the natural gas stations opening up in PA. May be working on water control with the fracking companies come summer.

EXACTLY!!! My husband and I are "discussing" his work schedule now. As I write this he is on a conference call in the other room after working a 70 hour week. He is about to go out of town for two weeks to please the customer. It is directly impacting our marriage.

He did this at his last job and after 15 years of severe dedication they fired him because he made too much. Let me add that he NEVER asked for a raise the entire time he worked there - they just gave them to him. He is overly loyal and cannot learn that companies are not these days. I have used the same deathbed scenario as well - to no avail. Some day he will wonder where his family went.

I would suggest looking at the field. I know some fields where masters are detrimental unless there is industry experience first. Mostly because at this point some companies would rather have a person with BS or BA because they can pay them less and spend the same amount of training and time on someone with a Masters and no industry experience. Some companies will even pay for all or most of grad school if it is related to the job.

But on the otherside some companies need a masters with certain BS or BA's to be considered. I would definitely look into this before saying to your kids this is required.

I went to UVA Engineering and concentrated in Materials Engineering. I graduated this past May and have an amazing job. UVA is #2 public university in the US so if your from Virginia, I don't know why you wouldn't go there. I paid my way and have less than $30k in loans.

I also chose not to go to grad school yet until I decide that what I work in is right for me. I'd hate to spend money and time for an additional 4+ years in graduate school just to come out and find out that that isn't the type of work I want to be doing for the rest of my life. Getting a job after graduating in Engineering at UVA is easy. I don't know anybody that doesn't have a job that graduated with me.

I would also reccommend NOT getting the Masters degree right away. Make sure your daughter does some sort of co-op or internship while in college (sometimes this is a requirement) which will give her invaluable experience and may lead to a job after graduation. Most larger companies offer tuition reimbursement if you pursue higher education.

My personal backgound: I went to a Big 10 school, co-oped to pay my way through (have about $10K in loans), and have been employed by the same (large) company since graduation for 2 years now. I'm starting my Master's degree in February (at a different Big-10 school) utilizing my company's reimbursement program.

Final note - I wish I would have sought out more scholarships while I was in school! Small scholarships here and there might not seem like a lot, but they certainly add up. I think I could have avoided taking out a loan my final 2 semesters if I would have planned better! (My initial scholarship ran out after 2 years, I then obtained another 2 year scholarship, but it took me 5 years to complete my degree)

Yes, this is true. But I would be curious to know how long it took you to find this job and whether you got it straight out of school. I also feel like it would require less people to design commercial art or proofread a book as in it's harder for it to be broken down into various jobs for different people. I'm not saying anything that your job is easier or means less (I draw stick figures...) but it's much easier to have jobs broken down in engineering. And I feel like you are a little narrow in your mind that only artists design our world. What about engineers designing cars? phones? yes they may not be art but I am sure that someone out there thinks that they are beautiful. The engineers who designed them probably didn't go out to an artist and say design this so its pretty and artistic and I'll fill in the guts. What about architects? I would say they are more on the techy/ engineering side of things due to the different stresses and problems they have to account for. But there are some gorgeous buildings out there.

And if by all means you love your job proofreading textbooks... go for it. I struggled to stay awake even in college... And as always beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The statistics show that technical degrees average better pay than liberal arts degrees. Sure, there will always be overlap. A world famous artist might be able to demand thousands of dollars for a picture. However, in general, the technical degree is going to be worth more. I totally support majoring in something you like, but it's a good idea to have a backup plan if there's a high chance your major won't be able to pay the bills.

The engineers who designed them probably didn't go out to an artist and say design this so its pretty and artistic and I'll fill in the guts.

You just basically described how Apple has made a bundle selling flashy plastic crap to people over the last 15 years.

Yeah, this. It could also be related to, like some people have mentioned, some students going to college for the 'college experience' (i.e. partying daily) and simply choosing a vague diploma because it's easy probably skew the numbers a bit.

If I had it to do over again, the few things I would have changed would have been to have taken a foreign language and some human resource business courses. Both would have profited me.

Zapper, I suggest just branching out of art and the schools.

Have you ever tried Scenic Painting for theatre? Its a good job opportunity right now.

Well said!

I'm studying English right now and will get my B.A. in less than two years. Hopefully, I'll be able to get as good of a job as you.

A week after class in my freshman year, my teacher [who worked for a newspaper] hired me as a freelance journalist, but it's far from steady work.

I agree Middle! Theatre Design for me.

My advise to everyone is study what you love because you are going to be working for 80% of your life.

Seriously, I never understand why people are always like "well... you wont be happy if you don't make $3,000,000 a year" Lies. I will not be happy if I don't like what I am doing.

I just spent a month working on a non-profit show. Nobody was paid. I worked late and long hours. And loved EVERY SECOND of it. I make enough money during the year to pay my rent, save a little, and pay my bills. And I am happy. What more do I need?

It is wonderful to be happy, and it is true that you cannot do something you hate and still do a good job. However, money does matter. Without it life is horrible. You have to count every penny - and that brings on great stress which effects mind and body. You have to reconsider the amount of food you buy, the quality of vegetables, if you can afford meat (if you eat it), how much heat you can live without. You can't go on vacations without savings. You can't have gym memberships, or go out to dinner. Say good-bye to your iPhone and internet connection. You will end up getting second hand clothing only. This might, at first seem cool but it will fade. Also, should you ever want kids, then you have to get practical. Life is no longer about doing what you love when you have kids. Only they matter - and kids are expensive. Very.

It is wonderful to be happy, and it is true that you cannot do something you hate and still do a good job. However, money does matter. Without it life is horrible. You have to count every penny - and that brings on great stress which effects mind and body. Y

No, that is not true. You only have to count pennies if you are living beyond your means in the first place. Don't think you need a new car, a new iPod, and 5,000 channels on cable, and living on $1000 a month is not that hard. I'm not saying I make no money, but I don't make much. And since my happiness is based upon the work I do and not material crap, then I am happy.

You have to reconsider the amount of food you buy, the quality of vegetables, if you can afford meat (if you eat it), how much heat you can live without.

I eat fruits and vegetables plenty, It helps when you don't shop at stores like Kroger who have high overhead. Shopping at local markets drastically reduces that.

You can't go on vacations without savings.

So save up for them, and don't go to 5 star resorts, local places are much more interesting anyway. Get out of the americanized crap and get some culture.

You can't have gym memberships, or go out to dinner.

My gym is the OUTSIDE (what a concept) and I eat out 2-3 times a week (I make $1000 a month in grad school)

Say good-bye to your iPhone and internet connection. You will end up getting second hand clothing only.

@!$%# the iPhone. Give me one good reason why I need it. And I still pay for internet just fine. As far as second hand clothing, who cares? Nobody can tell. The pair of jeans I bought last week was the first pair I bought at an actual store in like 2 years. And they were from Kohls. Not exactly high class. I find much more expensive jeans at Goodwill. Why should I pay full price for jeans when I can get them for $3.50 at Goodwill? Nobody is going to know where you buy them.

And if you really want some original clothes, learn how to sew. Its not hard.

Also, should you ever want kids, then you have to get practical. Life is no longer about doing what you love when you have kids. Only they matter - and kids are expensive. Very.

Only if you buy them lots of @!$%# they don't need. Lots of people raise kids when they make $15K or less

Sounds like you just have a problem with needing material possessions to feel cool. You will never be happy with all that crap. Sorry, but its just not real.

College is certainly not a waste of money if you want an income where you don't have to live in a mobile home and eat Kraft dinner 3x per week. Statistics bear it out, college grads earn significantly more on average than non-grads.

The rest of your advice is valid, however--avoid debt like it is a virus.

Debt is a tool. I used it to buy my house and a 1 year old car. Both wise moves. Currently, I have no debt as the house and car are paid off. But, I am eyeing a nicer house, and the market prices are GREAT! Sure, I am one of the few who still has access to loans, but there ARE lenders out there! Yes, I will take on additional debt, but even a catastrophe will not derail me. I will just have to move back into this house. (which I intend to rent out)

Jim gets the Red Neck award. He probably does not give to charity or volunteer (because it doesn't pay him money) Lord, feel sorry for him and ask him if he showers as water usually costs something unless he does so in the river. "enjoy life?" doing what? drinking cheap beer? watching TV? Are we sure this isn't just a joke?

Leave it to a Texan....buddy, Texas is the biggest red neck place in the whole country...wish it would go ahead and secede again (this time successfully). Even with its fake richy rich consumer facade, Texas is still just a glorified Mississippi.

Go out and take out a bunch of debt so you can go get some expensive hookers and coke...then go back to your ranch.

Well this redneck says stfu cidiot